fish on fridays

[passionpop]

me and dad have just come back from a drive and we past a fish shop, and i observed that it was open

dad: who buys fish on sunday
me: people who forgot to eat it on a friday.

after a moment of thought dad points out that we ate fish on friday, and this being unusual for me I said 'you did'

dad: you did too

i thought for a second and realised i made tuna filos on friday and i ate a couple

me: OH MY GOD! I AM TURNING INTO A CATHOLIC!

dad: *laughs*

Comments

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

You'll be poking holes in condoms and exclaiming "Jayzus, Mary ant' Jawseph!" next.

[jakie-em.livejournal.com]

i think i would have to throw away my 'toys' first...

[logansrogue.livejournal.com]

Naah, just dress 'em up and draw little faces on 'em.... make a charming little nativity scene.

[jakie-em.livejournal.com]

oh... the primary school kids... adn their parents... will love the vibrating Joseph

[eldaeb.livejournal.com]

Funny thing about the fish on fridays - did you know it started because the fishing industry was struggling (I think it was something to do with changing weather conditions and increased prices)? So lots of Christians at fish once a week to help support the fishermen.

Like so many issues (including preists not being able to marry - the condom issue too I expect) it started as a social justice issue, but gained enough critical mass that it became a tradition.

I love it when a group of people care, and try something to make a difference like that.

I hate it when it becomes a tradition if it looses meaning because people and groups start defining themselves by it, even when it becomes irrevalent.

It's not a bad tradition, as traditions go (I think it's better than Coke's Santa Claus) and there's that nice "the man was a fisherman" analogy that could add a semblance of relevance to the whole thing. I guess I'd just rather people thought more for themselves, looked around and picked more relavent stuff to define themselves by. That's what I think "the man" tried to teach at least ;)

[jakie-em.livejournal.com]

see now you have ruined Christians for me... they did something to help someone... they did something good? how can this be? arent they meant to stand around telling me I am doing stuff wrong while they sit around, sloth like, consuming gluttonously and getting angry at the TV because it doesnt satisfy their lust, and when it does, they are envious that others are getting it.

damn, I didnt get greed and the other one in there.

[eldaeb.livejournal.com]

Nah, that's not Christians, that's I-don't-want-to-go-to-HELL-ians. The guy they claim to follow says he came so that we all may have life - and life to the fullest.

Kinda like the difference between a peck on the cheek with a whispered "I love you" and having an affectionate and loyal spouse, beautiful and loving kids (if you want children) and still making time for those passionate nights. Except in this case they pretend to be the same thing.

In other words, I'm proud that I'm a Christian because I want to live an abundantly full life - does that cover the greed and pride enough for you?

Thinking of the seven deadly sins, I've been reading Full Metal Alchemist lately - lots of fun thoughts in that series (the anime is good too, but they diverge down different parts at chapter 30, I like the original work a bit better)...

[jakie-em.livejournal.com]

i grew up knowing good catholics, my god parents are good catholics... thats about it really. all the rest use religion as an argument.

I used to have discussions, well me and my friend Kitiara, with our Human Boil teacher, see we werent huge on human biol, but we did it because it as a science. I was better at geography and maths and her, geography and english. anyways we used to discuss religion and belief amongst other things with our human biol teacher.

essentially it came down to humans feel we need religion as an explanation and for hope because we dont want to think everything we done here ends and there is nothing beyond it. we need religion because we need something to believe in.

this is an interest to me in itself. yes, we need something to believe in, but cant we believe in one another? cant we have hope, faith and trust in each other? why are these all things that wee need as people but we believe we cannot find in people and look for it in an external source.

yes, i should start my own cult

in the same respect though, we need something to blame. we need to believe that there is an external force that creates the bad things in our lives.

then we meet my mum, who nothing is her fault. who is catholic and is not interested in any other religion and barely practices her own faith. but thats in someone else control, not hers.

maybe there is destiny and stuff, but thats only part. we take responsibility for ourselves.

I like the seven deadly sins and see them as a good starting point for morals, the seven virtues go too far but still, we have to shape ourselves and we need to have morals for that. if you dont come off the blocks right, it is a long swim back.

I havent read Full Metal Alchemist, and i have a heap of stuff to read/watch that i am yet to get around to. while i am internally sunbaking, i might start getting through stuff though.

[eldaeb.livejournal.com]

I like that - a lot of good thought there. I don't disagree with much, but I'd like to propose an alternate view of Christianity - and this is what I think sets it aside from other religions when it's working.

First, it's not just about pie in the sky when you die - it's also about steak on your plate while you wait.

If you look at the book, there's a strong theme through it of relationship - in the garden of eden, when the tabernacle was built, and through to revelations - God wants to get to know us, if we'll let him. That takes it away from a vague ambiguous being in the sky, and turns it inso something real and applicable in day to day life. It takes some work - just like relating to anyone else.

It also means as a relaitonship that problems can be shared - but you've still got responsability for your side. It's not an escape clause, it's an encouragement to improve.

It changes the face of sin too - the hebrew language has diffrent words we translate as sin, one being the action, but one being a state - of seperation from God (kinda like a divorce). It's the state that leads to the action - we don't have a relationship, so we do actions that bring hurt to people (face it, as you get to know your friends, you learn what hurts them, or damages the relationship and naturally stop doing it).

I forget where, but there's a spot talking about who will get to heaven - the criteria is "did you know me?". Many people who thought they knew him didn't, and many people who didn't think they knew him, did. I think a lot of people pick up a picture of God that they disagree with (from the people who think they know, but don't) but pick up the right motivations, and live as if they know him. How do you get to know him? In that passage, the criteria is things like giving someone who's thirsty a cup of water, or visiting someone in prison.

The second thing that's different is forgiveness - the only reason we feel we need someone to blame is because there's no way we could make up for all the mistakes we make in life. If we can be forgiven, we can see our shortcomings without fear, and work on them to improve - and we can accept the shortcomings of those around us. It's hard for people to accept (I struggle with it often) but it's a moment of freedom when you realise that all those mistakes you made is just water under the bridge - there's still consequences, no responsability is removed, but you don't have to worry about what's gone by.

It's powerfull, it's un-earned. I know a psycologist who says that if he could deliver forgiveness - just that one thing would cure 95% of his patients. It's not easy to accept though.

I think Aquinas missed the mark slightly on the seven deadly sins, or at least the way we use the words today doesn't quite fit, but they're close.

Frome experience though (and there are lots of studies on this) morals can't exist in a vaccum - they can last a while, sometimes even a generation or two, but without a guiding force - a compass so to speak - they eventually crumble when under pressure. Morals are important - you're right they tell us where to go, and when we make a mistake it's a long swim back, but without a higher purpose what's the point in following them? How do you tell what the right morals are? I don't think morals would, or can exist without a creator.

*phew* - that's a rough description of me trying to put it into words. I could go on more, but I'm sure that's more than enough for now.

[jakie-em.livejournal.com]

this is the longest thing i have had on my reading list this week and atm I still have little attention span. i was even having trouble watching the footy today.... yeah i know my team wasnt playing, but there are teams i really dislike and other teams i have as my 'second' team and i wanted them to win. 1/3 one game out of the three this weekend has left me happy. and tomorrows game is pretty much a given so I am not going to bother getting emotionally involved in that one. I love the finals

I have never liked people telling me what to do. as a kid, i could never be told without punishment for anything. I hated Dr Seuss because you cannot read his books without a condescending tone, and i hated that. i think thats why, form an early age, I had issues with religion because they always told you how to live and assumed people couldnt work out how to be good within themselves.

today, I went to vote, and at jandakot Primary (which is in the seat of Cockburn and not jandakot as the name would suggest) there was a sign on a wall about the rules of the school. these included that if you got to the school before 8.30, you were to sit in the courtyard outside the library. at 8.30 you are allowed to proceed to your class, however if there is no teacher, you are to go back to the courtyard and wait. it also said that 'before school time is not playtime'. If i spit out kids, they are not going to school there. I mean I would expect that from a catholic school, but not a government school. - actually I am going to post this because it shits me so much. I mean when I was a kid of 6,7,8,9,10... there was no way on gods green earth I would sit in a courtyard before school.

thats the way I always was though. i was a kid and kids have fun. they dont sit around, drugged to their eyeballs on dexy's or ritalin (as my mum tried to have me, and fortunately failed) and me good little clones.

but thats it, life isnt meant to come with an instruction manual. people are meant to have personalities and have all the colours of the world within them. to an extent, it is the 'bad' people that make the 'good' people want to be good. but what is good and bad. I once saw the Iraq conflict played out as George W as Darth vader and Husein as yoda I think. it was amusing, but the point was the blurred line between what is good and what is evil. who is good and who is evil.

who is evil?

there isnt a religion that, in its purests form, tells its believers to kill people, yet almost every war in the last 2000 years has incorporated religion. someone had a righteous belief that they were right and usually the Catholics were to blame. I mean even WWI, most of the sides that allied with germany were of a similar religious persuasion. I say this though, having seen the French film Joyeux Noel, which was based on the stories of the first Xmas on the front where both sides sung Xmas carols together on Xmas eve. it was said that the people in the tranches had more in common with their enemies than with their leaders, and that catholics, Christians, and others sat in on the xmas masses together, listening to the latin words that then most Christian denominations preached in. they sung the same carols over many beliefs. it is not the war of the people in the trenches though, it is the war of their generals. it is a war for their beliefs

meh, so how can we believe a war, like iraq, is right? how can our leaders believe it, how can they tell us this? how can we kill someone for beliefs.

in the freo jail they have a catholic church. on the wall are the en commandments with a small amendment. it reads 'thou shalt not commit murder', because capital punishment was practised at the time of building the church. our generals change the morals to fit their needs.

[eldaeb.livejournal.com]

did you know that the bible has two words for knowledge? One is like a head knowledge - you've got the information, you can do fancy tricks with it, and even create actual predictions. But it's just in the head - it's intellectualism. The other means that it's part of your understanding of the world (from the heart) - it's impossible to know in the second sense without it affecting the way you relate to the world. Generals and tactitians tend to work from the head knowledge rather than the heart knowledge - any heirachy tends to get more rigid as the upper layers get divided from the lower. It's that division, and alienation that I think is a major part in all wars.

I work to eliminate this "alienation" from communities (it's probably the centre of my job) and I can tell you that when the ideas people have in their head match with their experience of the world (their minds and hearts united) it makes a huge difference - their capacity to explore and grow, as well as their resilience to destructive ideas, takes a leap forward as long as it's mainained.

It's central to people becoming "mature" - when children are young we tell them not to play with fire - and are usually quite carefull to be strict with that, and keep them well away from fire. If the child's mind is healthy, and their parents are aware they'll understand more about fire as they grow up - maybe even have bonfires, or use it to keep the house warm or to cook. If this doesn't happen they'll be crippled in certain situations, they'll have to stay away from all forms of fire, and they won't be able to explore and grow in may ways (such as ability to cook).

The progression goes from dependancy to counter-dependancy (asking questions and trying new or different things, it doesn't actually turn into rebellion if you're allowed to disagree with your authority), to independance (knowing our own place, your own mind) and finally interdependance (participating with others). We can be at different stages in different areas of our life, but in general counterdependance is teenagers, independance starts to settle in around 18 and interdependance is developing if the individual is healthy by 25 (earlier if they've had good role-models). I have seen children who are quite interdependant in familiar situations, and I know plenty of adults who are still dependant on others in their life.

So the rules are important, but they have their place. They only really take up a little bit of the bible - mostly in the old testament (where God was setting up a good culture in the Jews - the 10 commandments are basically the core of their legal structure, a lot of the other stuff was about things like hygene and such). When Jesus came along he got really upset with the pharisees, they were sticking to the letter of the law (and even inventing other laws based off it to try and draw clearer lines), but they missed the point. Peple weren't maturing in their faith.

I think it's still a problem today. Many churches focus on the rules - basically telling people how to think. It gives them control, means they don't have to answer the hard questions but if there isn't a way to help them grow, mature, ask those questions and integrate their understanding into their life then they'll end up paralysed, and will probably end up repeating the same mistake and trying to force the ideas that were forced on them onto someone else.

Having said that, many churches get it right - the leaders want to see the people grow, and find their own way in life. The teachings turn from a restrictive straightjacket to a valuable reference to life, and as people explore their own lives, share with each other (and build on their relationship with God) and integrate their understanding of life so they can be more effective. In my expereince they won't get held back by doubt or confusion as much and as such are more able to fully express themselves.

[eldaeb.livejournal.com]

(continued...)

I never trust a group where everyone looks the same, or acts the same - people are being repressed or controlled in that group. We need the boundaries so we can be free to explore - without the boundaries the strong dominate, and the weak remain repressed (which actually ties up the strong as well and stops everyone from fully realising their potential), but we need mercy and compassion to temper justice. As we can relate to each other, care for each other and draw apprpriate boundaries, we can become more fully ourselves, and the range of expression broadens so people still have many things in common, but are definitely unique and themselves.

Above, I was probably a bit critical of those I-don't-want-to-go-to-hellians, I think they are Christians, just immature ones, still kept being fed on milk without understanding the world. They're not yet functional as adults, and they haven't been trained to eat meat, or think for themselves.

So what is evil? It's unfortunately a daily part of our lives, it's anything that deviates from Justice - the setting and respecting of appropriate boundaies, anything that deviates from Mercy - an attempt to understand what life is really like for those around you, anything that deviates from Compassion - from caring for those around you. We're all sinners (yep, me too) but as we get to know God, and understand this world he's made we can close that gap and become more functional.

Maybe there is a time when it is appropriate to kill someone for Justice - if there is no other option, I'm not sure on that, and I certainly don't beleive it's right to rush into that. In Iraq though, there have definitely been breaches in Mercy and Compassion from our side, and probably Justice too. So what if they've breached that - it's still no excuse for us to copy them. But we're afraid, our leaders want to control (when we loose trust we resort to control, and that's usually a breach of Mercy - we treat them like a foreign enemy out there without really understanding their situation, just like we can compassionately go out to help people, and try to control them to do things we think are best for them - neither works).